Ti/Ni + Type 5

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Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Khys on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:03 pm

This made so much sense to me: (From Riso's "using the enneagram for self-discovery")

The basis of their orientation to the world is thinking; personality type 5 corresponds to Jung's introverted thinking type:

Introverted thinking is primarily oriented by the subjective factor...It does not lead from concrete experience back again to the object, but always to the subjective content. External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, though the introvert would often like to make his thinking appear so. It begins with the subject and leads back to the subject, far though it may range into the realm of actual reality...Facts are collected as evidence for a theory, never for their own sake. (C.G. Jung)

Although they correspond to Jung's introverted thinking type, Fives are perhaps more precisely characterized as a subjective thinking type because the aim of their thought is not introverted (that is, directed toward themselves); rather, it is directed outward toward the environment, which Fives want to understand for defensive purposes. The impetus for their thinking comes, as Jung says, from "the subjective factor," from their need to know about what lies outside themselves, as well as from their anxiety when they do not understand the environment. This is why thinking is the method Fives use to both to fit into the world, and paradoxically, to defend themselves against it.

One of the results of the way Fives think is that even healthy Fives are not very deeply rooted in experience. They are the type of people who get a great deal of intellectual mileage out of very little experience because they always find something of significance where others see little or nothing. This may lead to great discoveries. However, when they stop observing the world and focus their attention on their interpretations of it, Fives begin to lose touch with reality. Instead of keeping an open mind while they observe the world, they become too involved with their own thoughts. Whatever does not agree with their ideas is simply not perceived or is rejected, which serious consequences for themselves.



It's especially interesting to me how the bolded part might effect or cause the Ti-Ni loop mindset.

Discuss.
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Erbse on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Nothing bold there, ma'am.

Though, I presume you meant the last paragraph.

It also reminds me of 'House' - having a problem to solve easily causes me to go into an overdrive mode where I don't care about anything but finding a solutions, or multiple explanations - although the lack of information is as apparent as the process is futile - yet it's borderlining on some embedded neurotic behaviour.

Although they correspond to Jung's introverted thinking type, Fives are perhaps more precisely characterized as a subjective thinking type because the aim of their thought is not introverted (that is, directed toward themselves); rather, it is directed outward toward the environment, which Fives want to understand for defensive purposes.

I'm uncertain about this passage. While it certainly is true that I want to understand the outside simply to be prepared for it, I at the same time dig an endless hole into myself as well to gain understanding of my own behaviour and circuits.

The impetus for their thinking comes, as Jung says, from "the subjective factor," from their need to know about what lies outside themselves, as well as from their anxiety when they do not understand the environment. This is why thinking is the method Fives use to both to fit into the world, and paradoxically, to defend themselves against it.

This would explain why I hate trying out new things, but am fine with doing them once I been there a few times. E.g: Picking up new hobbies (Gym, and other sport activities) - the initial step is always the hardest.
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Siren on Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:21 am

Yes this is very interesting and perhaps the reason that 5s can be out of touch with a loved one for a long period of time and it doesn't mean they feel differently. They live in their heads and can maintain a sense of closeness to their SO just by thinking about past experiences.
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by madhatter on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:00 am

Also, 5 integrating to 8 could be correlated with Ti/Ni using more Se, which look very similar. I would say that my function ordering is Ti Ni Se Fe, and this would line up with me being type 5. (I think other ISTPs who have a different Enneatype are Ti Se Ni Fe). I have always been very introverted, and as I integrate to 8, I become more at ease with my extraverted functions.

What do you think? 5 -> 8 = more Se?


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Erbse on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:10 am

Well, I can identify with being Ti - Ni over Ti - Se, although Se in and of itself certainly has its existence inside of me, just less predominantly. I'm also taking introversion to rather unhealthy levels, although I navigate through social situations just fine these days.

If that's a 5, then that's just that.

My knowledge of the enneargramm is inexistent, so I can't really comment a whole lot on it - I still think enneagramm becomes obsolete if one takes function fluctuations into account by either strength and/or order (aux ter swap).
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Niobe on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:28 am

Siren wrote:Yes this is very interesting and perhaps the reason that 5s can be out of touch with a loved one for a long period of ti

me and it doesn't mean they feel differently. They live in their heads and can maintain a sense of closeness to their SO just by thinking about past experiences.

This is exactly what my ISTPish SO does.:-) With myself, closeness depends on the current state of the relationship.
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Thinkist on Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Interesting fact: Enneatype 5 has nothing to do with Ni (nor Ne). What about Ti-Si with a lack of "experience" via Ne, for example?

Enneatype 5 also correalates strongly to IxTJs, so what's to be said for that?


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Khys on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:00 pm

Thinkist wrote:Interesting fact: Enneatype 5 has nothing to do with Ni (nor Ne). What about Ti-Si with a lack of "experience" via Ne, for example?

Enneatype 5 also correalates strongly to IxTJs, so what's to be said for that?


I'm not sure what you're asking.

I think the combination of Enneagram + cognitive functions has a lot to do with the differences between us all.
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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Kayness on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:46 pm

a lot of IxTPs are also 5s, so if there is any correlation, it's 5 = strongly correlated to IxTxs.


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Thinkist on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:40 pm

Exactly. Also INFJs and ENTJs. Not 100% sure why that is.


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Kayness on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:39 pm

I'm sure INFJs because of the Ni+Ti, too?


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by madhatter on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:45 pm

I can't really see an ENTJ being a 5.


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Thinkist on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:44 pm

Kayness wrote:I'm sure INFJs because of the Ni+Ti, too?

Mostly that kickass tertiary Ti. What's kinda surprising is that ISFJs, who also have tertiary Ti, end up towards the bottom.

madhatter wrote:I can't really see an ENTJ being a 5.

You may be right. I tallied up these stats some time ago from pstypes.blogspot.com and somehow ENTJ ended up being toward the top. ENTJs will often end up being an 8 or a 1 with a good amount of 5.


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by Khys on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:49 pm

hm 5 integrates to 8


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Re: Ti/Ni + Type 5

Post by madhatter on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:08 am

And 8 disintegrates to 5. So if an ENTJ were an 8, they'd still have a good amount of 5 characteristics there. However, the correlation between ENTJ and core-5 would be rare (but not impossible).


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