ESTP vs. ISTP

Before anybody reads this as a "bash" on ESTPs, I must admit that they are honestly one of my favorite types. They're good at getting you to loosen up and have fun--so long as you're on their good side.

Nonetheless, I've noticed something. I've met several over the course of my life and we almost always clash. Like, it ridiculously escalates and just about gets to the point where there will be a physical confrontation. I can understand the reason behind this: ISTPs wish to be left alone and largely ignore social hierarchies while ESTPs (especially the immature or unhealthy ones) thrive on this. Unlike most who either cower away in fear or freely become their lemmings, we have little interest in such a thing. And you know how we are--we're territorial and if you put us on the defensive out come the razor sharp teeth and claws. We refuse to back down and it naturally leads to petty conflict.

Has anybody else experienced this?

With my cousin when we were younger. We were born only two days apart, and while we get along for the most part, we've clashed a number of times. He likes having his way, and I like people who like getting their way not getting their way, especially if they're pushy about it, which he can be.

Yeah I have. I've made it really simple, leave me out of your schemes unless I'm okay with it. Don't ever try to intimidate. But I've had a lot of good times with a suspected ESTP.

I don't even know the difference between the two personalities anymore to contribute.

I work with an ISTP in construction, she's bossy and indecisive and that pisses me off, especially since she has no authority over me. I've hung out with ESTP's, they have the attention span of a newt, which can be aggravating. I also find ESTP's to be a little overexpressive in their criticisms toward me. Then again I do the same thing to other people.

My ambiversion sorta puts me smack dab in between both personalities, although I actually identify more with ESTP because of the personalitypage personal growth section. The ESTP personal growth talks about various types of meditation that an ESTP should learn to differentiate (how to tell apart Ti from Ni) which is pretty cool and I relate heavily to that. The ISTP section just sorta says, "you're a dick and you're stubborn so start openning your mind and express yourself more." Those aren't really problems I have in life.

Other than the obvious: ESTP's act before they think, while ISTP's think before they act...

Hmm, I'd say a big difference between the two personalities is how accelerated their energy levels are. ESTP's have explosive energy they can ramp up really quickly and aggressively, which I think ISTP's tend to ramp up their energy at a much slower pace. So an ESTP can go from dead silent and reflective to standing up and shouting random blasphemies clear out of the blue, while ISTP's are slower to gather that energy?

Also the usage of their Ti differ. ISTP's use their Ti to organize their lives, while ESTP's use their Ti only to solve problems when they need to.

What type are you, DJ? I'm not sure anymore.

He's a different type depending on the day.

@Madhatter, my type is much more well defined in socionics as SLE-Ti, which is ESTp. But translating back over to MBTI is kinda tough. So I just roll with Ti Se Fe Ni as my type.

I added some extra lines to my previous post that sorta explained it.

@DJ

You're in a struggle to find an identity and the hounding pricks surrounding you aren't helping.
Don't ever apologize for what you are to anybody.
Enforce that state of mind and the haters will quickly back off.

You're an ISTP. It truly takes time to find your footing.

As for differences between the two types, there are plenty but I'm not going to list them here.
Multiple articles around the 'web to explain this.

I think Fe at tertiary vs. at inferior makes a whole world of difference.

Also I feel like ESTPs 7 and 8s are very different, too. Compare Halla with Treebob.

That's true. I suspect my ESTP best friend is probably a 7. Funnest person in the world to be around. They're also incredibly loyal--if you are on their good side they've got your back 'til the end.

The 8s (or other enneagram types--not too familiar with the theory) are probably the ones I clash with in real life. What I do know is that the ones I have a problem with often appear egotistical, emotionally immature, mindlessly "conquering" everything in sight to feed the superiority complex. These are qualities I despise in other people (and myself as well--I call it the "Daniel Plainview syndrome").

Duck_of_Death wrote:That's true. I suspect my ESTP best friend is probably a 7. Funnest person in the world to be around. They're also incredibly loyal--if you are on their good side they've got your back 'til the end.

The 8s are probably the ones I clash with in real life. Egotistical, emotionally immature, full of themselves, mindlessly "conquering" everything in sight to feed the superiority complex. These are qualities I despise in other people (and myself as well--I call it the "Daniel Plainview syndrome").

I for one have a simple "get the fuck out of my face solution."

Oh I do, too.

The reason this thread exists is because I almost got into a fight with an ESTP Saturday night at a friend's crab feast. He was eyeballing me all night--a wannabe "alpha male" with tribal tats and a sleeveless shirt. He was clearly looking for a fight with someone--anyone. I took note of it early on and went about my business. Grabbed a beer or 8 and ate some crabs.

Later on in the night, he sat down right next to me (despite there being multiple empty chairs at the table) and he started his "dominance" bullshit. I didn't play it. Everybody else may have been up his ass, but I wasn't impressed.

I stared dead ahead, purposely avoiding eye contact as I playfully egged him on. When the verbal confrontation hit its peak, I gave him a full blown dose of my piercing death stare. His eyes revealed a combination of butthurt, humiliation and instinctive fear. I could practically hear what he was thinking: "Oh, fuck. What have I gotten myself into?"

Eventually, some girl interrupted our verbal gymnastics and he blew up throwing petty insults my way (saving face). I didn't bite, I mostly just laughed at him. Needless to say, he had left the party within five minutes. By the way, this guy could have easily crushed me. He was possibly larger in muscle mass than Schwarzenegger was back in his prime. I shit you not.

Two days have passed since this incident and I'm still full of well-earned confidence, adrenaline and testosterone.

Thank you, "psycho-intensity-boiling-underneath-the-surface" ISTP superpower!

My uncle is an ESTP 7, my aforementioned cousin's dad...he brings life to any party. I'm not sure what my cousin's Enneagram type is...it might be 3w2.

Muscle mass doesn't mean shit if your talented and knowledgeable my friend. Trust me. Anni you don't, all you gotta do is watch MMA. A prime example is Cain Velasquez vs. Brock Lesnar.

Aka watching the bigger man dance around the ring.

SLE-Ti acts very ISTP'ish. It thinks before it acts. It also has a more calculating and intelligent mindset. Apparently they often become powerful psychologists as they grow older... ahem... They're also much more reactive and much less proactive when it comes to relationships. Check that box. So from a socionics standpoint I would be an ESTP with heavy Ti, which accounts for my ambiversion.

So I'd be the same personality as this guy. I'd say once I feel self empowered and less like a bitch begging my boss for money every 2 weeks, I'll probably start to look just as scary as him as well. Anyone else feel like his picture can read your mind?



dennis miller

Anyway after what I've learned, from a pure functional standpoint I'm ESTP. But from an appearance standpoint I'm ISTP. You're probably not going to like that answer, but that's because I didn't ask you and you can go stuff off.

...Ah, to be fair. Bullshit posturing aside, I actually kind of felt bad about it.

Like I said, my best friend is an ESTP (and I suspect another close friend of mine is as well) and I know that despite their bravado and tough exterior, that they are surprisingly sensitive and are practically dependent on social acceptance. When they don't get it...it hurts.

I was drunk and I'm just a bitter asshole. And I could see in his eyes that I actually did hurt his feelings by rejecting and mocking him so harshly. Perhaps it was the sign I needed to snap out of being an asshole? 'Cause I sure as hell didn't feel good about myself when I turned to look at him.

I'm going to be the bigger man. The next time I see him (he travels in the same social circles) I'm going to apologize for being a dick.

You know duck, I've had my fair share of introverted 6's who flip a shit on me for reasons I'm not really sure.

When I read your story all I thought to myself was, "so this is what's going on in their mind when 6's flip a shit on me for no damn reason?"

Are you sure he was actually trying to dominate you? or was that all in your mind? When I'm feeling rather confident in myself, happy and assertive, those are actually the most prevailant times I have people explode on me for random damn reasons, which is why I feel like a giant turtle who just walks through life trying to be myself and all the reactive 6's and 3's just explode on me because I look at them funny, so I have to just hide in my shell and take fire when I'm out in social situations. I'm starting to have to force myself to put on a more pre-emptive defensive posture.

Does not surprise me at all.
Introverted 6's can be this way. Paranoia, and all that.

I won't lie--we are more than capable of being bullies ourselves, especially if we're unhealthy. We can put everybody else to shame if we so desire. And the attack(s) will be downright malicious, unethical, unrelenting. The whole nine yards. Not something to be proud of.

The events of Saturday night brought this to focus. I need to cut this shit out.

EDIT: You know what? I don't know if he was trying to "dominate" me.
He was initially dicking with me to some extent, but I had to go and be a jackass about it.

And the same thing about being "happy."
On the rare occasion that I am in a good mood, some asshole has to come along and ruin it.

my INTJ 6 brother is convinced I'm the next Hitler and never assists me in anything I need help with (I blame the Fi Ti communication barrier though), and my INTP 5 brother is worried about something similar; he'll help me out when I ask for feedback or advice, but he has a suspicious eye for any activities that would suggest I'm turning into a power hungry sociopath. I have a very trusting family.

INTJ 6 gets upset whenever I make jokes about gassing jews and tarring the spooks. Paranoia I tell ya.

DJ Arendee wrote:Anyway after what I've learned, from a pure functional standpoint I'm ESTP. But from an appearance standpoint I'm ISTP. You're probably not going to like that answer, but that's because I didn't ask you and you can go stuff off.

To each their own. I'm not going to argue with you. You know yourself better than I would.
Nonetheless, everything else I said stands. You'll grow into your skin in due time.

Either way--please don't become Hitler.
You can nip suspicion in the bud by making jokes about the pyramids instead.

mcgooglian wrote:Aka watching the bigger man dance around the ring.

Stick to bacon.

MXZCCT wrote:

mcgooglian wrote:Aka watching the bigger man dance around the ring.

Stick to bacon.

lol!

Introverted 6's see reality for what it is. Me included. DJ can become Hitler if he wants, but until he grows into his own skin the only things he will be putting in the ovens is a tony's pizza.

@MXZCCT
I think 6's are only fearful or paranoid of what they CAN'T see. Often times the remedy to my brother's remarks on my genocide comments are when I explain to him a very specific detailed plan on how I am going to execute said genocide. He then usually says "pff... that'll never happen" and stops attacking me.