Rough Draft of ISTP description

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Rough Draft of ISTP description

Post by Khys on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Trying to make an ISTP description but i keep gettin distracted and/or bored and not finishing it.




Basic ISTP

How I use Ti

I spend a lot of time stuck in my head. Under stress, it is difficult to leave my thoughtscape. I forget there is something else out there. Future thinking is difficult for me because of how wrapped up I can be in my own mind. When faced with a decision, I will usually start with the logical framework for the problem. “what are the facts?” Then I will begin systematically considering possible solutions. I use Ni a lot in this process to predict potential outcomes and shortcomings to my solutions.

My solutions are grounded in an earthly “here and now” practicality. When I look for an answer I ask myself “What will provide the most complete fix to the problem?” “What will have the fewest possible negative impact?” “What will expend the least energy?” “What uses the fewest resources?”

When people come to me with problems, concerns, or circumstances, I listen for factual cues. I want to hear the sound bites of their problems, and I mentally skim through their conversation listening for the bullet points. I use these bullet points to create a framework for what they are trying to communicate to me and this is what makes up my understanding. The downside can be if I miss an important point or fact that changes the meaning of what they say. I can be very stuck on the framework I built and often resist other possibilities of what they meant.

Sometimes I will expect people to “convince me” of whatever their point is. It can be difficult not to take a “false until proven correct” stance. I often listen to new ideas and first look for potential flaws. If I find a flaw, I can be dismissive of their whole idea. The framework as a whole is important to me. I cannot ignore a tiny flawed detail, nor accept the whole picture if one small part is flawed. This can cause moments of nihilism.

When I communicate, I try to relay my points in a straight line of reasoning. “Here is piece of data #1, #2, #3, so forth, and here is the conclusion.” Sometimes the conclusion will be so clear in my head, that I will simply communicate the data and forget to provide my conclusion, but instead, expect the listener to have the same conclusion.

My core is one of practically. I ask these questions: “Does it work?” “Can it be fixed?” “Can it be affected or changed if I expend energy on it?” “Are the results worth the energy expended?”

How I use Se

I am very in tune with my physical environment. This does not mean that I like playing sports, am an adrenaline junkie, or a hedonist. Instead, I take in immediate reality. This includes physical sensation, but it also puts me in a present-oriented state in which my focus is to impact or analyze what is currently happening now.

How I use Ni

Ni is a subconscious function for me. Often it will combine with inferior Fe to produce
a negative outlook. For me, I am most conscious of it’s usage in social constructs. Walking into a room, I might pick up on tension or emotions in the room. Because Fe is inferior, Ni + Fe can also create feelings of being an outcast, or cause a fear that I “don’t fit in.”

Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes. When an ISTP is unhealthy, Ti and Ni can combine to predict constant negative outcomes. This is often described as the Ti-Ni loop. I don’t know how much I buy into that other than to agree that if you have a negative mindset, you will have negative thoughts. Nihilism can be a problem because Ni can see horrible possibilities. Because Ti can’t find a path that is perfect and free of all bad turnout, the ISTP will simply stop moving forward.

In my view, the eternal dichotomy of Ni is one of Insight vs Paranoia. It can be very difficult to determine which one you are experiencing.

In social situations, the ISTP may have trouble determining if they are liked. Fe is weak and produces fear of experiencing negative emotions that cannot be trusted, controlled or predicted by Ti. Ni begins to see potential connections between facials expressions, words or phrases, or another person’s demeanor that communicate a potential rejection or social failure. Sometimes these moments are insight, but just as often, they are paranoia. Because Ni is weak and all final control is given to Ti, the ISTP can again start to feel stuck. Both social failure and social paranoia are possible. Ni cannot produce a concrete reality, only possibles, so Ti can’t draw a conclusion. The ISTP again becomes frozen and withdraws.


Haven't written the section on Fe yet. Please feel free to contibute bullet points that I should include and expand on.
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Khys
Space Shuttle Captain

Call Sign : Den Mother
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 36
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Motto : Balls to the walls

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Re: Rough Draft of ISTP description

Post by Thinkist on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:46 pm

Distracted or bored? It's a good excercise for your Ni to get this done Wink

khys wrote:

How I use Ti

I spend a lot of time stuck in my head. Under stress, it is difficult to leave my thoughtscape. I forget there is something else out there. Future thinking is difficult for me because of how wrapped up I can be in my own mind. When faced with a decision, I will usually start with the logical framework for the problem. “what are the facts?” Then I will begin systematically considering possible solutions. I use Ni a lot in this process to predict potential outcomes and shortcomings to my solutions.

Indeed, many ISTPs, like INTPs (although not as much as INTPs) are insistent on things being logical, and as STs are realists.

khys wrote:
My solutions are grounded in an earthly “here and now” practicality. When I look for an answer I ask myself “What will provide the most complete fix to the problem?” “What will have the fewest possible negative impact?” “What will expend the least energy?” “What uses the fewest resources?”

This is part of what makes ISTPs unique. Being Ti-dom, we are often efficiency-oriented, as well as bent on analyzing a system, whether it works or not (so to distinguish ISTPs from TJ types, who use Te instead). Not only that, but ISTPs are more realistic in their analysis than INTPs.

khys wrote:
When people come to me with problems, concerns, or circumstances, I listen for factual cues. I want to hear the sound bites of their problems, and I mentally skim through their conversation listening for the bullet points. I use these bullet points to create a framework for what they are trying to communicate to me and this is what makes up my understanding. The downside can be if I miss an important point or fact that changes the meaning of what they say. I can be very stuck on the framework I built and often resist other possibilities of what they meant.

That last sentence sounds very Ni. Ni is rigid about the possible. An INTP is often a lot more open to other possibilities and interpretations. Additionally, the whole paragrapgh isn't exactly Ti, but Se-Ni. listening for factual cues is Se, while constructing the framework is Ni. And, unlike NJs whom are top-down people, ISTPs are bottom-up people. They use Se to build up to the "big picture" (Ni). Perhaps the only usage of Ti in this is how you decide to construct the framework.

khys wrote:
Sometimes I will expect people to “convince me” of whatever their point is. It can be difficult not to take a “false until proven correct” stance. I often listen to new ideas and first look for potential flaws. If I find a flaw, I can be dismissive of their whole idea. The framework as a whole is important to me. I cannot ignore a tiny flawed detail, nor accept the whole picture if one small part is flawed. This can cause moments of nihilism.

Like INTPs (and probably thinking types in general... or maybe just TPs), ISTPs can get easily irritated by the illogical ways of others, particularly the feeling types. ISTPs at a young age may have a tough time accepting something like a "because I said so" for an answer, often reasoning that it is not a good reason.

khys wrote:
When I communicate, I try to relay my points in a straight line of reasoning. “Here is piece of data #1, #2, #3, so forth, and here is the conclusion.” Sometimes the conclusion will be so clear in my head, that I will simply communicate the data and forget to provide my conclusion, but instead, expect the listener to have the same conclusion.

My core is one of practically. I ask these questions: “Does it work?” “Can it be fixed?” “Can it be affected or changed if I expend energy on it?” “Are the results worth the energy expended?”

Perhaps expecting the other person to have the same logical conclusion is part of the source of the "smart alec" that is common to the TP types. TPs seem to love to laugh at and point out those foolish little mistakes of others.

Regarding your last paragraph, note that other TPs may ask the same questions, but TJs will only go as far as the first one. It's not practicality per se. The "practicality" part of that is because of our preference for sensing.

khys wrote:
How I use Se

I am very in tune with my physical environment. This does not mean that I like playing sports, am an adrenaline junkie, or a hedonist. Instead, I take in immediate reality. This includes physical sensation, but it also puts me in a present-oriented state in which my focus is to impact or analyze what is currently happening now.

And unlike ESTPs, Se isn't present virtually all of the time. ISTPs aren't constantly bent to experience the moment like ESTPs. However the two types can be confused for their SP drive and need for logical correctnes. ISTPs are more reflective and intuitive than ESTPs. Nevertheless, like other SPs, present reality is seen "as-is," adding on to the realism of an ISTP.

khys wrote:
Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes. When an ISTP is unhealthy, Ti and Ni can combine to predict constant negative outcomes. This is often described as the Ti-Ni loop. I don’t know how much I buy into that other than to agree that if you have a negative mindset, you will have negative thoughts. Nihilism can be a problem because Ni can see horrible possibilities. Because Ti can’t find a path that is perfect and free of all bad turnout, the ISTP will simply stop moving forward.

This article focuses some on how these dominant-tertiary loops come about. For ISTPs, it can happen because they start seeing things as "imperfect," as "needing improvement," amid others. The visionary, idealistic ways of Ni pique, and are reinforced by Ti. When Se comes into the picture, it says, "Why are you worrying about perfection? Can't you just enjoy what is? Can't you be more in the moment, as is your nature?" Also, Ti-Ni loops are only healthy in small doses. In larger doses, it can make an ISTP seem more aloof and introverted than is normal for an ISTP, and make an ISTP seem kinda weird.

I'm not entirely sure how inferior Fe plays into the picture of Ti-Ni. See below:

khys wrote:
In social situations, the ISTP may have trouble determining if they are liked. Fe is weak and produces fear of experiencing negative emotions that cannot be trusted, controlled or predicted by Ti. Ni begins to see potential connections between facials expressions, words or phrases, or another person’s demeanor that communicate a potential rejection or social failure. Sometimes these moments are insight, but just as often, they are paranoia. Because Ni is weak and all final control is given to Ti, the ISTP can again start to feel stuck. Both social failure and social paranoia are possible. Ni cannot produce a concrete reality, only possibles, so Ti can’t draw a conclusion. The ISTP again becomes frozen and withdraws.

Indeed Ni can bewilder the ISTP when influenced by Fe.

khys wrote:
Haven't written the section on Fe yet. Please feel free to contibute bullet points that I should include and expand on.

I find Fe is somewhat responsible for the silent pull of ISTPs to their "brotherhood" or "sisterhood." Or, under stress, Fe may have some wildly emotional outbursts. It may even get violent when combined with Se. Fe is very much the opposite from Ti in that Ti is of an autonomous, utilitarian, independent, and sometimes even rebellious nature. Fe is of a more cooperative, harmonious nature. The fact that Fe is illogical can make an ISTP fear feeling. Ultimately, however, the well-balanced ISTP will have a sense of independence, while still being able to care for others, and may even be willing to initiate this sort of caring, kinda like EFJs do. And the more Fe becomes developed, the more the ISTP will be able to accept general cultural norms and social standards for what they are, and become less rebellious. The ISTP may even be willing to change these norms a little. Finally, if the ISTP has ever taken note of how ETPs use their tertiary Fe, the ISTP can become a marvelous persuader and manipulator.


Thinkist
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Call Sign : Ti-bag
Join date : 2012-02-11
Motto : Think about it.

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Re: Rough Draft of ISTP description

Post by dogwoodlover on Thu May 17, 2012 7:01 pm

khys wrote:Trying to make an ISTP description but i keep gettin distracted and/or bored and not finishing it.




Basic ISTP

How I use Ti

I spend a lot of time stuck in my head. Under stress, it is difficult to leave my thoughtscape. I forget there is something else out there. Future thinking is difficult for me because of how wrapped up I can be in my own mind. When faced with a decision, I will usually start with the logical framework for the problem. “what are the facts?” Then I will begin systematically considering possible solutions. I use Ni a lot in this process to predict potential outcomes and shortcomings to my solutions.

My solutions are grounded in an earthly “here and now” practicality. When I look for an answer I ask myself “What will provide the most complete fix to the problem?” “What will have the fewest possible negative impact?” “What will expend the least energy?” “What uses the fewest resources?”

When people come to me with problems, concerns, or circumstances, I listen for factual cues. I want to hear the sound bites of their problems, and I mentally skim through their conversation listening for the bullet points. I use these bullet points to create a framework for what they are trying to communicate to me and this is what makes up my understanding. The downside can be if I miss an important point or fact that changes the meaning of what they say. I can be very stuck on the framework I built and often resist other possibilities of what they meant.

Sometimes I will expect people to “convince me” of whatever their point is. It can be difficult not to take a “false until proven correct” stance. I often listen to new ideas and first look for potential flaws. If I find a flaw, I can be dismissive of their whole idea. The framework as a whole is important to me. I cannot ignore a tiny flawed detail, nor accept the whole picture if one small part is flawed. This can cause moments of nihilism.

When I communicate, I try to relay my points in a straight line of reasoning. “Here is piece of data #1, #2, #3, so forth, and here is the conclusion.” Sometimes the conclusion will be so clear in my head, that I will simply communicate the data and forget to provide my conclusion, but instead, expect the listener to have the same conclusion.

My core is one of practically. I ask these questions: “Does it work?” “Can it be fixed?” “Can it be affected or changed if I expend energy on it?” “Are the results worth the energy expended?”

How I use Se

I am very in tune with my physical environment. This does not mean that I like playing sports, am an adrenaline junkie, or a hedonist. Instead, I take in immediate reality. This includes physical sensation, but it also puts me in a present-oriented state in which my focus is to impact or analyze what is currently happening now.

How I use Ni

Ni is a subconscious function for me. Often it will combine with inferior Fe to produce
a negative outlook. For me, I am most conscious of it’s usage in social constructs. Walking into a room, I might pick up on tension or emotions in the room. Because Fe is inferior, Ni + Fe can also create feelings of being an outcast, or cause a fear that I “don’t fit in.”

Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes. When an ISTP is unhealthy, Ti and Ni can combine to predict constant negative outcomes. This is often described as the Ti-Ni loop. I don’t know how much I buy into that other than to agree that if you have a negative mindset, you will have negative thoughts. Nihilism can be a problem because Ni can see horrible possibilities. Because Ti can’t find a path that is perfect and free of all bad turnout, the ISTP will simply stop moving forward.

In my view, the eternal dichotomy of Ni is one of Insight vs Paranoia. It can be very difficult to determine which one you are experiencing.

In social situations, the ISTP may have trouble determining if they are liked. Fe is weak and produces fear of experiencing negative emotions that cannot be trusted, controlled or predicted by Ti. Ni begins to see potential connections between facials expressions, words or phrases, or another person’s demeanor that communicate a potential rejection or social failure. Sometimes these moments are insight, but just as often, they are paranoia. Because Ni is weak and all final control is given to Ti, the ISTP can again start to feel stuck. Both social failure and social paranoia are possible. Ni cannot produce a concrete reality, only possibles, so Ti can’t draw a conclusion. The ISTP again becomes frozen and withdraws.


Haven't written the section on Fe yet. Please feel free to contibute bullet points that I should include and expand on.



Wow... this is really good.

Much better than the little bit of work I've done on my group's ISTP description.

You hit some point in here that resonated with me very strongly that I haven't seen covered in any other ISTP descriptions

dogwoodlover
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Join date : 2012-04-07

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