Socionics, for the newbs553

Socionics, for the newbs

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Socionics, for the newbs

Post by DJ Arendee on Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:57 pm

I figured I got nothing better to do so I'll write my own introduction to socionics and how its different from MBTI. This requires knowledge of the 8 cognitive functions and what they mean (Ti Te Fe Fi Se Si Ne Ni)

Imagine a trampoline with a bunch of boxes underneath it. You're looking down on the trapoline and can vaguely see the boxes underneath but for the most part you only see the trampoline.

Socionics is the stuff underneath the trampoline, MBTI is the trampoline itself. Don't ask my why I'm using this analogy, for some reason it fits.

The trampoline is shallow and thin. The boxes of stuff underneath are hidden, but there's tons of content in them.

MBTI is a very shallow typing system. It was designed by an INFP (MBTI) and socionics was designed by a thinker (by its systematic layout I'd say either an IXTP of some sort). Socionics is sort of the "what" you are, while MBTI is sort of "how you come off to others."

So with being said this is how it works.

Socionics types have two types of designations that you may have seen before: the 3 letter designations (SLE, ILI, SLI, EII, SEI, etc.), and the 4 letter designations with the last letter being lowercase (ESTp, ESTj, INFp, ENFp).

The 3 letter designations work like this: there are 4 letters. S (sensing), I (intuition), L (logic, or thinking), E (ethics, or feeling). The first 2 letters are your primary followed by your secondary function. The third letter designates E or I for extroverted or introverted versions of the primary function. So an SLE = Se Ti. ILI = Ni Te. If the first function is introverted, the secondary function will be the opposite, (or in this case extroverted), and vice versa.

the 4 letter designations are just like myers briggs designations made to be easier to understand. The difference is, a personality ending with a J means the primary function is a judging function (Ti Te Fi Fe). So an ISTj will have Ti Se as their top two functions. Myers Briggs is different, because the J and P letters indicate your overall behavior. Percievers are go with the flow and procrastinate, Judgers make early decisions, and tend to plan. They also tend to worry about the future more often than not, hence the planning.

Now, how do you convert Myers Briggs to Socionics and vice versa? Well, you can't. They are two separate systems. Remember, MBTI is shallow and is based on how you COME OFF TO OTHERS. You look at someone and say, "oh he's an introvert, he typical talks about practical down to earth stuff, he is very analytical, and he tends to not worry or care about the future. He's an obvious ISTP.) That's it. MBTI is shallow. Sometimes its possible to view Socionics as if you turned an analog clock crooked, so the 12:00 position becomes the 2:00 position. So ISTP would become ESTj, or ENFJ would become INFp etc. But even then that method is flawed.

As difficult as it is, in order to understand socionics, you have to FORGET EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT MBTI. Forget the visual identification you used to use. Forget your original methods of typing people. Forget your understanding of the classifications of people. Humor me for just a minute. Open your mind to a new system for just a little bit while I explain it to you.

Here is an undeniable fact. Say you're on an ISTP forum of some sort, such as personalitycafe. You'll notice many of the ISTP's are different from one another. Some people attribute this to enneagram. It works, but socionics already takes this into account. Some people attribute this to the human mind being very complex so you can't know everything. Personally I believe the latter theory is a lazy rationalization. We're here to identify the human mind as a predictable system and classify human beings, not read one another poetry and talk about how everyone is unique. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Socionics personalities are completely based on the functions, and the functions only. Why do the ISTP's get along with some ENFP's, and dispise other ENFP's? Its the same reason some ISTP's are complete adrenaline junkies while others are completely not. Its why some ISTP's are conflict averse and why some are attracted to it.

Here is the simple truth that makes it all easy to understand.
You can be an ESTp in socionics, and an ISTP in myers briggs (ISTP enneagram 8, ). INFj ISTP (ISTP enneagram 4). ISTp ISTP (ISTP enneagram 9). ENTp ISTP (ISTP enneagram 8, ). INTj ISTP (ISTP enneagram 6). ISTj ISTP (ISTP enneagram 5 or 6). ESTj ISTP (ISTP enneagram 3).

Are you starting to understand how things fit together yet? But even then the lines are blurry and there is no clear distinction, that's why ISTj ISTP might sometimes be enneagram 5 or 6.

Random fact: ISTJ's are typically known for seeing visions of doom in the future. For those who aren't familiar, this is very similar to enneagram 5 (LSI or ISTj). Its often very difficult for MBTI personalities to convert over to socionics, because they are clinging to their MBTI identity and don't want to give it up. There is a reason many people on the MBTI forums often complain about ISTP's being fake and acting more badass than they deserve. Its because these ISTP's identify with myers briggs typing, but in socionics, they're not actually the badass personality. They may be more like harrison ford, who is a loveable adorable recluse ISTp (SLI enneagram 9) as opposed to a harsh bitter clint eastwood SLE ESTp.

There's a reason not all ISTP's aspire to be clint eastwood. Its because Clint Eastwood could very well be an ESTp, or even ISTj in socionics. He could be a completely different personality than all the other ISTP's. Its even more astounding when people cast out other members of the forum based on a system that is inherently flawed. "You're not an ISTP..." But on what grounds can you cast someone aside when the system itself is WRONG?

Anyway back on topic. Socionics essentially has 32 personalities insead of 16 like myers briggs. Here's why.

SLE - Ti
SLE - Se
LSE - Si
LSE - Te
etc.

There are subtypes. So you can have an extrovert that favors his introverted function. From my own observations, I tend to see myers briggs ISTP's with the socionics types of INFj - Ni, ENTp - Ti, ESTp - Ti, ISTj - Se, ISTp - Si, and INTj - Te. Me personally, I am an SLE - Ti, or an ESTP that favors his Ti. If I had to type clint eastwood, I'd say he is either an ISTj - Se, or an ESTp - Ti.

So where do you come in? Well there is a huge test you can take HERE. Just be aware that you need to answer it truthfully and not based on your self knowledge of MBTI. It also got my subtype incorrect which I had to look up on my own. But the test can point you in the right direction.

So where does duality come into play? Why do you get along with some personalities and not with others? How come your friends are never consistent within the personalities of MBTI? Because mbti is flawed. Some may argue that I am in fact an introvert, but I'll actually quote this article talking about ESTp's. Also, I don't know who viktor gulenko is. Feel free to ignore him.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLE_subtypes
Logical subtype (The Organizer)

Victor Gulenko
Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".

So with all this being said, I challenge you to further understand your personality via socionics before you act like a typist without realizing it. For the longest time I felt I was an introvert because I sit in front of a computer for hours by myself without social contact. From the outside, I would appear to be a rather antisocial introvert. But if you actually see what I'm doing from my perspective, you'll realize that I'm constantly researching. I'm looking up youtube videos, I'm constantly messaging friends. I'm living in a cyber world full of people and things to do. Very rarely do I actually step away from the computer and MEDITATE within my own mind, and when I do I have to find complete and utter silence in order to bring out my weak Ni. My confusion with socionics has caused me to actually sit down and think about myself in a way I never had. I used to blindly accept that I was an ISTP based on shallow values. But to truly understand how my mind works has given me a new life understanding. Not only that, but all the intertype relations will make more sense to you and be more consistent.


Never look down on someone unless you gettin head

DJ Arendee
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Re: Socionics, for the newbs

Post by Thinkist on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:39 pm

Another awesome Socionics resource: The 16 Types. TONS of articles and links.

What I'm trying to figure out is if there's any clear correalation with the J/P dimension in MBTI and the j/p dimension in Socionics. The whole J/P thing affects function order, so while ISTP is Ti-Se-Ni-Fe-Te-Si-Ne-Fi, ISTp (SLI) is Si-Te-Ni-Fe-Se-Ti-Ne-Fi. So far this has told me that socionics functions are something very different. I'm also trying to figure out something called Visual Identification (VI), where just one look at a person's face, and you can easily figure out their sociotype. Notably, the VI method has gotten some criticism.


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Re: Socionics, for the newbs

Post by _Mike_ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:46 pm

The problem I have with Socionics is that the descriptions go so far into detail that it's futile to try to recognize oneself in them; all combinations of L and S types seem to fit me to somewhere between 25 and 40%, and I get to choose between being extremely punctual, caring about my clothes or having a boring sex life, perhaps with a touch of mysterious mood changes and jealousy. Oh, and don't forget that I might never again be seen without a mustache if I decide on being one of the types here. scratch

The MBTI might have it's flaws, but if you use it for what it is, it's a lot more accessible and useable "out of the box", and personally, I'd say there's a lot less bullshit to wade through to get some useful information to begin with. But having a choice is a good thing, and ultimately, some people have to find socionics a superior tool, or it wouldn't be as widespread as it seems to have become.

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Re: Socionics, for the newbs

Post by DJ Arendee on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Well quite frankly, because of socionics I'm starting to think I'm actually an ESTP. So I'm giving ESTP a shot for a while to see if I like it. So far I love it. If socionics had its way most of the "adrenaline junky" ISTP's would probably become ESTP's. ISTP stereotypes would look a lot more docile and approachable, and would probably be hated on a lot less by the ENFP's. You should see some of the hate ESTP's get.


Never look down on someone unless you gettin head

DJ Arendee
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Call Sign: drama
Join date: 2012-01-31
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